Discussion:
[fpc-other] How do you keep up with FPC discussions?
n***@z505.com
2017-05-26 04:45:38 UTC
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- preferably anything with "huys" and 'git" :-)
Awesome, I made the list. :)
Seriously, just be selective, and use a threaded reader that allows
you to
skip/ignore threads.
Agreed.
Also agree, web mail has this feature if anyone has Roundcube.
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Lukasz Sokol
2017-05-24 08:30:23 UTC
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I can't find enough time in the day to read even one single email
list (fpc-pascal), let alone two, or more..
How in the world do people (you) keep up with reading email lists and
not waste the entire day?
It seems some of you have super human powers that I don't have, to be
able to both program, and email, and read email, and cook/work.
I can barely keep up with one email list, and fpc is not even that
popular of a list compared to others...
Maybe I'm a retard and my brain is slow, but how the f**k do you keep
up with all these emails and have any time for programming, cooking,
working, hiking, possibly a relationship with opposite sex?
There is just no time.
I'm positive that some of you are just clever A.I. bots posing as
humans.. that's where your super powers come from. You're not
actually humans..
Reason for posting this to fpc-other: obvious.
Subscribe to gmane.comp.compilers.free-pascal.social
Subscribe to gmane.comp.compilers.free-pascal.devel
Subscribe to gmane.comp.compilers.free-pascal.general
Subscribe to gmane.comp.ide.lazarus.general

on news.gmane.org

using Mozilla Thunderbird

enable threaded view

take a course in speed reading

read the posts using 'space' to scroll down and to go to next post.

Just finished the .social, .devel, .general ~60 posts and posted 2 replies

6 messages in .lazarus.general remaining

~20 minutes more or less

Sorted :)

or use the gmane.org web interface :) I just noticed it came back with a new team
(after previous maintainer got scared of being sued out of existence by some half wit)

(EDIT : they are not back yet with the web interface... but it at least seems to be worked on)

-L.

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Graeme Geldenhuys
2017-05-25 10:07:53 UTC
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even if most of the time he
pushes it far harder than many of us enjoy.
I’m afraid it’s an occupational habit. My job as a technical consultant
and developer often requires me to come up with more efficient ways of
doing things. Yes, inefficient ways and code really grind on me. I’ll
try my best not to push this any further here.

Regards,
Graeme

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n***@z505.com
2017-05-27 01:28:33 UTC
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On 2017-05-25 09:02, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:> even if most of the
time
he> pushes it far harder than many of us enjoy.
I’m afraid it’s an occupational habit. My job as a technical consultant
and developer often requires me to come up with more efficient ways of
doing things. Yes, inefficient ways and code really grind on me. I’ll
try my best not to push this any further here.
I /am/ trying to be neutral on this, but I think it has pretty much
been done to death here: particularly since Florian has given his
ruling.
Well if we want to come up with an efficient way of doing things, it's
possible that Git and SVN are both not the answer to development model.
The answer may be to start up a campus, similar to microsoft campus,
with multiple buildings and developers that can literally knock on each
others door when needing assistance :-)

i.e. freepascal becomes a campus... with social eating events in the
campus at lunch.

But that would require funding and relocating of all developers, and,
even in a campus you'd probably still use svn/git anyway :-)
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Karoly Balogh (Charlie/SGR)
2017-05-24 13:54:42 UTC
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Hi,
I'm positive that some of you are just clever A.I. bots posing as
humans.. that's where your super powers come from. You're not actually
humans..
Hahaha, you got that right! That's my secret! :)
For the record, I met him in person already, and I can confirm this. :)

Charlie
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n***@z505.com
2017-05-26 04:58:54 UTC
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Post by Karoly Balogh (Charlie/SGR)
Hi,
I'm positive that some of you are just clever A.I. bots posing as
humans.. that's where your super powers come from. You're not actually
humans..
Hahaha, you got that right! That's my secret! :)
For the record, I met him in person already, and I can confirm this. :)
Charlie
The issue becomes if you do meet a human in real life, it could just be
a brain wave sent to your brain to interpret it as a human inside your
brain, like an opengl render scene injected into your neurons, so you
never know if it is a true human.

Someone, for example, like Lawrence Krauss, is strikingly smart
scientist who I cannot imagine being a human being as he has all this
database of science in his head that no human could hold in a brain
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Tomas Hajny
2017-05-24 14:27:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karoly Balogh (Charlie/SGR)
I'm positive that some of you are just clever A.I. bots posing as
humans.. that's where your super powers come from. You're not actually
humans..
Hahaha, you got that right! That's my secret! :)
For the record, I met him in person already, and I can confirm this. :)
...proving just that you're another A.I. bot. ;-) However, I'm afraid that
I belong into the same category, because there are people who could claim
meeting both the two of you and me. ;-)

Tomas


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Graeme Geldenhuys
2017-05-24 12:01:36 UTC
Permalink
How in the world do people (you) keep up with reading email lists and
not waste the entire day?
I'm between jobs! And all my gardening chores are already done. :-P

Regards,
Graeme

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w***@windstream.net
2017-05-26 11:36:52 UTC
Permalink
while i understand what you are saying, i always get a huge belly
laugh when someone says anything about cluttering an inbox... that's
just crazy when you have filters that can easily move new mail to its
own folder for reading... each of the FPC related mailing lists comes
into my thunderbird and is filtered to its own (sub)folder where the
messages are read in threaded mode... it is faster and available to me
even when i'm offline... plus i have a local copy of all the messages
so i can search historically if desired...
Indeed you can hide all the mailing list into one folder so its not visible.
why one folder? i have

inbox
sent
junk
trash
outbox
apple
freepascal related
fpc-devel
fpc-other
fpc-pascal
lazarus
synapse
ham radio
linux stuff
and so on and so on and so on
But once you start opening that folder and trying to read through, say 5
lists,
5 lists is 5 (sub)folders...
your day is just used up - especially if you stop to help someone on the list
and then have to open up fpc to test your idea/help hint you gave to them.
back in the 80s, i used to work 10-12 hour days and then come home and read 500+
messages in numerous fidonet echomail areas... of those 500+ messages i read, i
would write at least 20-25 replies containing support information... t'was no
big deal... i still do the same but fidonet is not as active as it was back in
the day and these mailing lists are also not as much... but i still receive an
average of 500 messages a day in my email...
I'm convinced you are all lying a.i. bots with super powers, though
hahaha... nope... just experienced readers of messages who have learned how to
work through them fairly quickly and easily... i will grant that it does take an
hour or two... if i'm offering someone some help and have to go write code, i do
that over several days... even if it means skipping some reading a day or two...
--
NOTE: No off-list assistance is given without prior approval.
*Please keep mailing list traffic on the list unless*
*a signed and pre-paid contract is in effect with us.*
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Ralf Quint
2017-05-26 15:27:51 UTC
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Post by w***@windstream.net
hahaha... nope... just experienced readers of messages who have
learned how to work through them fairly quickly and easily... i will
grant that it does take an hour or two... if i'm offering someone some
help and have to go write code, i do that over several days... even if
it means skipping some reading a day or two...
And on top of that, experienced enough to use a proper email client,
with proper message filtering, instead of (ab)using a web browser just
just another task... ;-)

Ralf

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n***@z505.com
2017-05-27 01:25:05 UTC
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Post by Ralf Quint
Post by w***@windstream.net
hahaha... nope... just experienced readers of messages who have
learned how to work through them fairly quickly and easily... i will
grant that it does take an hour or two... if i'm offering someone some
help and have to go write code, i do that over several days... even if
it means skipping some reading a day or two...
And on top of that, experienced enough to use a proper email client,
with proper message filtering, instead of (ab)using a web browser just
just another task... ;-)
Ralf
Indeed I hate web based programs of all kinds, but, after lots of my
email clients corrupted their databases which were not in plain text and
I lost my emails, I started using web servers and web programs as email
clients for lots of email. Thunderbird was an option, as AFAIR you
could store email as plain text, which is easier to recover if there is
a failure, but thunderbird, was bloated and took up way too much memory.
Sylpheed claws was another one I was interested in, as it had one of the
most advanced "Rule" system to automate tasks. More advanced than any I
could find.. it has changed names to claws-mail


However, IMO it has nothing to do with filtering out email because you
still have to read the email lists and read through emails no matter how
much you filter things. It's not like you can magically guess that "all
emails regarding anything to do with VARARGS I want to delete" because 2
months later you may need varargs help. Or, it's not like you can
magically guess that you don't want any emails coming in that have
anything to do with fixed arrays, because you don't use fixed arrays -
but maybe you will in 2 months!

Setting up thousands of filters is a time waster too...

But, this does bring me back to the sylpheed claws exploration days when
I was really into automating email rules using advanced
filtering/rulesets. I don't use them much any more but I used to use
them like crazy
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n***@z505.com
2017-05-27 01:57:52 UTC
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Forgot about another solution to wasting time on email.. The Donald
Knuth solution! Simply do not use email, and demand people write you
letters in the mail if they wish to receive a reply...

Not sure what Knuth is up to lately or what his software projects are.
But although I find this solution funny, it's also not as good when you
need instant help for something - but it does save you time just by
completely opting out of email altogether. You laugh, but how much time
do you spend reading emails: Start calculating :-)
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Ralf Quint
2017-05-27 02:54:16 UTC
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Post by n***@z505.com
Indeed I hate web based programs of all kinds, but, after lots of my
email clients corrupted their databases which were not in plain text
and I lost my emails, I started using web servers and web programs as
email clients for lots of email. Thunderbird was an option, as AFAIR
you could store email as plain text, which is easier to recover if
there is a failure, but thunderbird, was bloated and took up way too
much memory.
I am using Thunderbird, on Windows 7/8.1/10, macOS and Linux Mint Mate
for several years now, ever since I had due to a move switch away from
my old desktop running Eudora as the email client and use a laptop
instead. And it has the benefit now that it runs on all three main OS
that I use every day.
And that is using 6 different email addresses (right now, one
specifically for ), all using IMAP for ages now. And compared to the
amount of memory you are using in a web browser to get even close to the
comforts you get with a real email client, it is rather "lean and mean"...
Post by n***@z505.com
However, IMO it has nothing to do with filtering out email because you
still have to read the email lists and read through emails no matter
how much you filter things. It's not like you can magically guess that
"all emails regarding anything to do with VARARGS I want to delete"
because 2 months later you may need varargs help. Or, it's not like
you can magically guess that you don't want any emails coming in that
have anything to do with fixed arrays, because you don't use fixed
arrays - but maybe you will in 2 months!
Then you do not understand how you can apply filtering. You can mark
threads you are not interested in as "read on arrival", or depending on
the subject, move them in logical subfolders where you can read them as
needed. Likewise, you can mark "hot topics" with a tag, having them show
up not only a new/unread, but with certain colors. You can filter not
only on subject but also on sender (for better or worse ;-) ), text
occurring in the body, etc...
This way, you can have the computer do the most tedious part, separating
"signal from noise", which largely helps to reduce the number of emails
you actually "have to read". For me, that is on average maybe 10-20% of
the daily emails.
And why do you want to delete any emails, unless they are complete and
utter nonsense/spam (which barely happens in any of the FPC mailing
lists at least)?. I have all emails from the FPC lists going back to
early 2013, when I got by previous laptop and switched some accounts
from POP3 to IMAP, and it would just take a restore from some old backup
to get any previous emails back, probably at least to 2002 or so.
And if you are looking for a certain topic/keyword from past posts, you
can do a search just fine, which you might have to do anyway if you are
looking for something in a past thread, as I seriously doubt that you
remember exactly where and when someone posted that info you might be
looking for a few months later...
Post by n***@z505.com
Setting up thousands of filters is a time waster too...
Pick you poison... But, as far as setting up filters goes, most of it is
a one time thing. It might be a bit more if you just get started, but it
will reduce and become second nature over time if you keep using it,
saving you a lot of time in the long run. And TBird does filters much
better than any other email client out there right now, I barely miss
Eudora these days anymore...

Ralf


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Graeme Geldenhuys
2017-05-25 11:45:46 UTC
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But my observation is that email is not the best way of managing these
things even if you *can* create some folder structure. Email clients
evolve a lot and suddenly your old store of messages is not readable
anymore.
I've been working on and off (more off than on these days) on a local
project where I am rethinking emails completely. I too never delete
emails and my archives go back nearly 15 years. It's a nightmare to find
anything, because I used multiple email clients over the years.

So my new project splits the "email client" into two parts. The headless
email daemon/service. This does the polling of the inbox in one or more
mail accounts, and also does all the sorting of messages (via user
defined filters). Messages are then stripped apart and stored in a
Firebird database (other database servers like MySQL (G*d forgive me),
Oracle, PostgreSQL, MS SQL Server etc) are also supported. No
information is lost, and the original email (pristine and untouched) can
be regenerated from all the parts.

When I say "filtering", I really mean messages are tagged. There is no
such thing as a physical "folder" (tables) in the database. By default
new messages will get the "new" tag assigned to them, and whatever other
active filters are available to that account.

I then have the GUI front-end, which doesn't actually do any emailing at
all. It is simply a client/server application (but can also be
recompiled to be a 3-tier client via HTTP). The filters create a
"virtual" treeview structure of your messages. Moving a message from one
folder to another, doesn't physically move the message, it simply update
the tag associated with that message, which then makes in appear in a
different location in the GUI. Multiple tags can be applied to the same
message, so you can find the message in many ways, and no duplicate
copies of the message exists. Full-Text Searching is supported too.

Posting a new email creates a new database entry, and tagged with the
outgoing "queued" tag. I've defined (user configurable) a 5 minute delay
before outgoing messages are actually sent. The daemon will then pick up
those queued messages and physically send the emails at the right time.
Emails can also be scheduled for sending at a specific date and time of
your choosing.

The daemon also has the ability to import existing emails from Mbox
(MailBox) files or IMAP folders.

This opens up multiple possibilities. If you don't like the default GUI
front end, change it or build your own, or even design a web-based
version, or create a console version (that mimics your ELM or Alpine
clients).

The database table structure is pretty straight forward, no DB specific
stored procedures are used - so very portable to other database servers.
The database communication is all done via objects and abstracted away
using the tiOPF framework. The current GUI client also uses tiOPF to
communicate with the database or the middle tier app server.

The project is far from complete, but whenever I have a spare moment I
work on it further. I hope to one day unify all my email archives into a
single database and easily searchable via the GUI frontend.

Regards,
Graeme
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fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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n***@z505.com
2017-05-26 04:44:17 UTC
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How in the world do people (you) keep up with reading email lists and
not waste the entire day?
Avoid the following
- long discussions about new features
-> design by committee was never successful anyway.
Except that all the Algol features designed by a committee are slipping
their way into today's languages because people are smarter now and can
actually implement the features on newer computers, whereas back in the
1960's they were very limited... Think about this: all the languages now
that have type inference or similar (GoLang has something where you
don't have to declare variables but it's still strongly typed), and
think about local scoop loop iterators which many languages have.
Everyone that was a skeptic of committee designed languages didn't want
these features in their language, so projects spun off such as AlgolW
(wirth's small algol work) which became Pascal. But now adays all the
old algol committee designed features are sneaking their way into
everything... Not that this is necessarily a good thing I'm not sure,
but we know Small languages like AlgolW/Standard Pascal failed due to
not having enough work done on them by lots of folk (like a committee)
but on the other hand large languages of today such as C++/Ada are
mammoths
- anything with "Schnell" and "unicode"
- preferably anything with "huys" and 'git" :-)
Well you probably don't want to here my rants on Unicode as it's a mess
and I don't have a solution, so possibly ignore all 505 unicode posts
Haha.
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Graeme Geldenhuys
2017-05-24 13:43:01 UTC
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I'm positive that some of you are just clever A.I. bots posing as
humans.. that's where your super powers come from. You're not actually
humans..
Or we have a couple of clones - human trials started ages ago in some
countries. ;-)

Regards,
Graeme

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